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Sécurité

Thank you for participating in the Dialogue on Foreign Policy. The interactive web site is now closed. The Minister's report will appear on this web site once it is released.

Ce forum est bilingue, et les participants peuvent rédiger leurs commentaires dans la langue de leur choix.

Journalists attacked..

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-09 12:09:54


It is a war zone. I know you do not understand the concept.

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-09 13:03:57


So i guess directly attacking a hospital voluntarily is also ok.... Its a war zone after all.

If it was an accident i would understand, but when its deliberate, then its wrong...

You didn't see the video footage... By the tone of your answer its quite evident.






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Journalists attacked..

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-09 13:49:05


It is a war zone; you will never understand that unless you have seen it.

Personally, I hope you never do. Secondly, be thankful you never have.

Please don't take offence to my comments.

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-09 13:58:18


Gilligan casts doubt on source of hotel attack

Ciar Byrne
Tuesday April 8, 2003

The BBC's defence correspondent Andrew Gilligan has cast doubt on whether the missile that killed two journalists in Baghdad today was fired by a US tank, speculating that Iraqi soldiers may have launched the lethal attack.

The US military has admitted one of its tanks fired on the Palestine Hotel, the centre for most of the foreign media in the Iraqi capital.

However, Gilligan said reports from central command in Qatar were starting to suggest US tank fire was not responsible for the deaths of Reuters cameraman Taras Protsyuk and Jose Couso, a cameraman with the Spanish TV network Telecinco.

Three other Reuters journalists and an Abu Dhabi TV staff member were injured when an explosion hit their room on the 15th floor of the hotel.

"I may be right in saying we're hearing from central command that they're starting to retract their apology for this incident," Gilligan told Radio 5 Live's drivetime show.

He added that after examining the scene he concluded it was virtually impossible for the US tank to have fired on the 15th floor room.
"I have to say I rather doubt it and, having been underneath it and looking up now just before it got dark at the hole again in the side of the hotel, I still doubt it.

"For a start the damage to the hotel is superficial, it's only the masonry that's been torn off in a very small area, a tank shell would have done more damage I feel.

"Secondly the angle that the tank would have to have reached to hit that roof, it would more or less have had to have shot just round the corner and I don't think even the Americans have got those kinds of weapons."

Gilligan said although American tank fire hit other parts of the hotel, it was possible an Iraqi attack was responsible for the journalists' deaths.

"Now the Americans have admitted they fired at the hotel. There was damage to other parts of the hotel.
"This was the main one the 15th floor room, where the two people were killed and three injured, but there was also damage to rooms on the 14th and 17th floors.

"Now that might have been the responsibility of the Americans.
"This might have been the responsibility of someone else, maybe some Saddam Fedayeen with a rocket-propelled grenade, who did not like the fact the Reuters guy was shooting footage from his balcony at the time of the attack.

"That is pure speculation. I just think there must still be some doubt over this area."

Earlier today the US army said it had fired at the hotel after coming under sniper attack.

It said the deaths were "unfortunate". General Buford Blount, the commander of the 3rd Infantry division, which is at the vanguard of the advance on Baghdad, said a tank was "receiving small arms fire and RPG fire from the hotel".
Later the US army said although journalists were on a "protected list" the military was "correct in returning fire" because of the real threat to their troops.

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-09 15:39:40


You maybe right, but the US did fire on the hotel, i saw it with my own eyes...

Of course, if it os true that it was because they were responding to fire, then i would understand... But it seems strange, that all journalists did not hear any shots fired before the tank fired... Unless the Iraqi fired exactly at the same time on the hotel...

Hmmm.. was this BBC Defence correspondent on the scene? Does not seem so, so i do believe more credible what the journalists on location said... But only a full investigation will give out the truth.

p.s : No offence taken...


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Journalists attacked..

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-09 16:42:49


Its true, its impossible to believe that a hotel in which the Ministry of Information has set up temporarily (renovations on their building) could have had a couple of snipers hoping to draw the US military into a fight.

Afterall, Saddam's regime is all about keeping civilians out of harm's way. That's been there clarion call for 30 years now.

The journalists didn't hear shots? Well, I'm sure the CBC journalists didn't hear anything. They see no evil, hear no evil and say no evil unless the US has done it.

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-09 17:10:58


You must be working for the CIA! :)

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-10 10:00:55


That's right:

the Canadian Integrity Agency. I'm just trying to keep Canada honest!

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: 1254

Date: 2003-04-09 20:23:05


Saw it with your own eyes? No. You saw what the media wanted you to see. I noted some machine gun fire coming in on a TV Camera (the "crack crack crack"). Very easy for you to sit in your comfy chair, weathering the Spanish Inquisition, and judge the action. I can't judge it (cause I wasn't there) and neither can you. I highly doubt, however, that US forces would shoot at ANY media! That being said, they probably got shot at from that general direction, noted the tall building as a possible roost for snipers, and let loose with their coaxial machine gun and NOT the main armament. We all saw what that 120mm gun can go (when that tank on the bridge shot that building). It doesn't matter that the tank was close: it's a chemical energy shell, exploding on contact, causing the same damage whether its fired from 200 metres or 2000 metres.

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-10 05:07:28


"...I highly doubt, however, that US forces would shoot at ANY media"

Why, because its the US??

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-10 22:46:05


You doubt the US would shoot at any media; 3 separate incidents in a short period of time on well known journalist housing.
I even heard the excuse that it wasn't the USA; that their shots were lower; Iraq dissidents probably shot the hotel at the same time. Yes sure.
Perhaps they only used their coaxial guns because they were sending a message; not a full out massacre. hmmm
Wouldn't want an outright blatant attack.
More like a warning shot with acceptable collateral damage.
Just a possible theory but very suspicious when 3 separate attacks in such a short period.

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-11 06:48:03


The journalists did not hear one shoot 15 minutes preceeding the incident.

The explanations by the Pentagon:
First reason given : There shots being fired from the hotel.

Later in the day 2nd reason : Some people of the regime are residing in the hotel.

Finally, at the end of the day : The regime's people have armed bodyguards.

Frankly, if they were fired at, why did they change their reasons after?? Will there be a full investigation?



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Journalists attacked..

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-11 14:53:30


Fog of war...

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-12 13:07:13


Yu agree with me there should an investigation, no? I understand Fog of War, not Fog of Justice.

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-12 15:36:22


Yes, I agree with your concern. I don't think the soldiers should be put on the burner here.

I think the investigation should look at the dangers of reporters in combat zones and then impart ways to make it less deadly to them.

Just keep in mind the nature of combat is that bad things always happen.

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Journalists attacked..

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-13 14:28:18


Yes, i fully understand this, the only thing i want is an investigation, and i will accept their conclusions....

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