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Conclusion: Le monde que nous souhaitons

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-03 10:29:53

Banquo asks, “Would you rather I stopped posting?”

“Please don’t do that Banquo”.

My relatives in WWII gave their lives so we could comfortably & safely express our opinions from our computers. I honor that and to shun you would be to disrespect what they bled for.

Today good people die around the world in struggle for those rights availed to you and I. I comprehend revulsion about war; Banquo may possibly have friends and relatives living in Iraq. He sees the sickening images of death on T.V. This is not lost on me.

I don’t have relatives living Iraq, but I did have friends and relatives living during the World War II and the Cold War in the Soviet Union, parts of my family tree don’t exist anymore because of communist regimes. The current images of murder chambers of Saddam’s régime and accounts of survivors hit home to my elderly relatives. Banquo and Jwit, I know that the two of you recognize that just because we don’t see daily images of Saddam’s regime brutality on T.V., doesn’t mean it has not been happening for the last 25+ years.

I’m going to be difficult to you banquo, not because I don’t understand where you are coming from, but because I do.

When people talk about those that will die, what about the ones that have already died and the one's that will be killed by their own government in ways we can't imagine any human being put through by another human. We live in a country where we can say what we feel and not worry about being killed by it. The people that died during WWI & WWII to ensure that we have that right -- is it not true that in 2003 we must continue to fight with those without (representative) democracy when necessary?

I have spent too much time on this website; I’ll get back to it in awhile or so when I have less work going on.

Bye for now.
Steve
Peace.

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-05 00:46:23

My reletives fought in world war !! to stop a country from invading country ag=fter country: Not for democracy otherwise we would not have had Communist Russia as a participant on our side. It was to stop wars; not to start them. The only way to stop Saddam from committing atrocities on his own people is for the Iraqi people to overthrow him.(Assistance could be offered if asked for.) This is the only way that Iraq can become a strong independent country. An outside attack can only damage and destroy this country; any government formed will be
controlled by distrusted foreigners (USA) or governed by another corrupt government. The chances for a smooth changeover to democracy is very remote

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-05 05:06:15

I absolutely agree with you!! You have exactly the same opinion as me, overthrowing a government is the work of the people of that country, not of foreigners, of course other countries can help secretly of course...

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-05 13:44:05

Fatmomma Says, "The only way to stop Saddam from committing atrocities on his own people is for the Iraqi people to overthrow him.(Assistance could be offered if asked for.)"

The Kurd freedom fighters have asked and are now receiving help, I guess you support the war now?

As for WWII, people fought for freedom with/for their friends/family.

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-05 17:22:35

What the USA coalition is giving is NOT help; it is control. The Kurds are not playing a large role; they are bit players and do not present a broad representation of Iraq.

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-06 16:23:40

The Kurdish people are not a representation of the Iraqi people. They are non Arabic; represent approx 19% of Iraqi peopl. May 1988, many large and powerful Kurdish tribes and prominent Kurdish families (non tribal) supported the Central Iraq government.
The Kurdish people of Turkey are being attacked by that country. Turkey is still recieving money from America,
Interesting article on CBC News the other day; "Turkey's Kurds"
Supporting the Kurdish minority in this case would be like France sending troops to liberate Canada at Quebec's request.

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-07 20:50:10

What can I say; you are comparing Saddam's Iraq to Canada???

I am not going to continue to debate you on ridiculous claims like that, it doesn't justify a response.

In time we will see how the people of Iraq fare.

"Yes, you can even have the last word. lol..."

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-07 23:15:03

I made no claims just saying that you cannot hand over control of a country to a minority and expect it to work.
That we wouldn't like or accept being controlled by a distinct minority and neither would the Iraq's.
How is that comparing Canada to Iraq; stop putting a completely different slant on what I say.
People all over the world react much the same. Just made the comparison because Canadians are aware how badly that would be rejected. It would have to be a government that can represent all culture and races of the country

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-08 13:24:47

1) Iraq's regime is a minority (Sunni). And you, fatmomma, wanted to see the regime survive. so, if the country cannot work with a minority running it, why do you think Saddam's Iraq was working?

2) Trudeau, Mulroney and Chretien all hail from Quebec. Canada rolls along pretty well over the last 30 years of minority rule...

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-09 03:19:54

1. I did not support any regime. Just believe if Iraqis don't want them they should lead the fight to remove them not some foreign country.
2. They were are Prime Minister; picked by party members country wide; not chosen by a minority or placed there by foreigners.
3.Trudeau and Cretien were federalists; Mulroney was American controlled a Canadian tragedy.
Canada needs another strong leader like Mr Trudeau. We may not have always agreed with his stand but we always knew what his stand was. Perhaps if we paid our Prime Ministers as much as we see hockey players being paid we would find a higher calibre of politician running for Prime Minister.
( ok, I would be screaming as much as anyone if they initiated such a raise)
It just shows where our priorities lie

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-10 10:09:51

Mulroney was a great leader.

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-11 21:55:48

Most Canadians agree with my view; he sold us out. He is the reason the Conservative party was almost wiped out in Canada.

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-14 15:24:59

Yeah, but remember what Brian Tobin said at the Davos summit almost 4 years ago. He told Mr. Mulroney, who was in the audience at the time, that on free trade, Mr. Mulroney was right and the liberal party was wrong.

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-16 01:52:15

That is Mr Tobin's opinion; it means nothing to me. I am sure there are SOME who think Mulroney did well for Canada; but I, like the majority of Canadians have not been impressed.
I have no strong political leanings. I make my decisions by judging the leader and candidates on the issues that I believe to be importants at the time. I do not support the idea of voting only to get rid of a party that is in power that seems to be prevalent these days.

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Perhaps the World we don't want

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-17 16:19:17

Well, I'm just happy with free trade. I wish the world could trade freely, but us rich countries don't want to share our grocery stores with poor countries (our subsidies, Canada, US, EU prevent third world food producers from competing on level ground).

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