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America's shame

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-07 09:38:56

How can America's media be so proud of conquering a poorly armed country. Where are all these WMD that the USA claimed Iraq had that threatened USA security. I heard a short news release that suggest Mr Bush is "graciously" going to allow UN countries to help rebuild Iraq (send money). The coalition destroyed these beautiful cities; now they will be looking for our help (money) to rebuild.
All that destruction, lives lost and people seriously maimed and for what?
Any "finds" the coalition makes now to justify their actions will be irrelevant as none were used.

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America's shame

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-07 15:22:12

..."Any "finds" the coalition makes now to justify their actions will be irrelevant as none were used."....

This is where you trouble me fatmomma; can’t you drop the political b*llsh*t and be happy that no weapons were used?

---None were used because the majority of Iraqi's decided so. If you think Chemical Ali didn't give orders to use the weapons, you would be mistaken.

Now were is that 20 million Canada pledged upfront. We need to get clean water going again in that country.

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America's shame

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-07 23:45:43

Of course, I am happy none were used.
The majority of Iraqi's decided so??? now the Iraqi people can suddenly make these decisions; thought this was a dictatorship. Your American friends want to do all the reconstruction and setting up of governments; They should be the ones paying for their unnecessary destruction.
I don't give out political views as I hold none. I just do not trust a government like Mr Bush's that hands out fraudulent information and tries to bully or bribe countries for support; makes me view everything they claim to be questionable. I still do not understand why they suddenly left the hunt for the terrorists in Afghanistan before it was completed. What happened to rebuilding Afghanistan? If they don't get the roots of that problem it is just going to regrow. I reckon there are no resources there that America wants. Remember Osama bin laden? To be honest, When the World Trade Center was attacked; I believed that Saddam was responsible and would have at that time supported a full war against him. I only got involved in this after seeing the lies and fraudulent documents that Bush was producing; then his tactics to get support for this invasion while Iraq was disarming. Before all this: I always believed naively that because America was a democratic country and Canada's friend that they may make mistakes but not that the USA would do anything this unwise. I did realize that they liked to throw their weight around and not always play fairly with Canada over trade issues but I didn't think they would attack a disarming country.
I believe the money pledged was 100 million and will be given to the Red Cross. (don't hold me to that it is just my recollection)

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America's shame

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-08 14:15:20

My view on rebuilding Iraq is (after hearing several analysts), is that there should be an interim military rule to stabilize the country (Was this done like this for Germany after WWII?), but this military rule should be short-lived, and I don't see any problem that the US lead this military government (except, as i said in another post, i have a problem with the general who was chosen - pro-Israel and president of an armement company)... And power should be transferred to an interim civil government as soon as possible...

It is the interim civil government which causes me big scares. I favor the position where the UN should administer the civil government before elections can be done... Currently, it seems from what i've heard (these are very recent news, so their veracity can be discussed), that the US will be responsible for this interim government... This is the part i think will cause trouble for the world... I think Blair has failed to convince Bush.

Funny enough, Ms. Rice said to the Russians that all previous signed oil contracts will be respected - some analysts say that this a ploy of the US administration to break the Paris-Berlin-Moscow alliance... (This promise was NOT made to French authorities)... I wonder what will happen.

As i said these are VERY recent news, and i can't say they are true... But being a pessimist as usual, i think
its a bad sign for future events...

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America's shame

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-09 16:18:46

I guess you won't be surprised if I take a slightly different stance! :)

I don't think the UN should be allowed to administer anything in Iraq, except the provision of humanitarian aid.

I think the US was going to respect Russian contracts all along because Russia desperately needs the money. I don't think any contracts with Paris should be respected and that would be a sufficient French contribution - I think we should be very wary of any participation on the part of France in reconstructing Iraq. Paris has made it very clear they do not believe the middle east can support democracies and they will actively pursue thwarting any attempts to bring democracy to Iraq.

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America's shame

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-09 17:37:06

I know you would be opposed to what i wrote, dont worry!`:)

I must admit that most of the times i don't understand where your information comes from (citing from you):

"Paris has made it very clear they do not believe the middle east can support democracies and they will actively pursue thwarting any attempts to bring democracy to Iraq. "

Where does this come from? You're
sources of information are the best sources of propaganda i've ever seen, they even beat the US and Iraq propaganda put together!

Stop listening to CJAD AM radio (if it still exists)... :)

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America's shame

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-12 00:19:08

cfallon never gives sources for his information.
I don't know France's position on whether the middle east can support democracies but I think it is doubtful that Iraq is ready to support a democracy. Instant democracies do not tend to stick. They tend to become corrupt. The Iraqi people have not been recieving the training needed to
successful run a country or to understand or trust democracy. Russia had many problems converting to a democracy. Citizens found themselves worse off and blamed democracy. Crime flourished. An expert (American I believe) said he believed it would take at least one generation before Iraq would be able to have a viable democracy. Just caught the end of interview.

Meanwhile, they could be easily lead by outside interests

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America's shame

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-12 14:39:05

I think that Democracy is a very slow process which can only happen when the people of different countries are ready on their own. The more education the people have, the greater the chance of these people wanting democracy.

Canada's view of not imposing things on other countries is the right one.

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America's shame

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-14 15:14:55

Of course, the USA was an instant democracy.

You bring up Russia's troubles, but ignore the success in Poland and Hungary.

Japan became an instand and solid democracy.

It can be done.

Iraqis have a large group of educated people and I wouldn't count them out yet.

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