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Conclusion: Le monde que nous souhaitons

Thank you for participating in the Dialogue on Foreign Policy. The interactive web site is now closed. The Minister's report will appear on this web site once it is released.

Ce forum est bilingue, et les participants peuvent rédiger leurs commentaires dans la langue de leur choix.

Moving Forward

Participant: jariax

Date: 2003-03-18 04:45:31


Well, it seems that despite the best efforts of concerned citizens all over the world, the effort to resolve the situation in Iraq has failed.

Now that the decision has been made, what can be done by Canada, the UN and concerned citizens.

First of all, there are many things about this impending invasion that remain in doubt. It is clear from the holes in the evidence and the intentional deceptions of the US administration that they have something to hide.

The pretenses of WMD and links to terrorism are blatantly and transparently false. The ONLY reason that I could possibly condone this invasion is to rid Iraq of Hussein. There can be little doubt as to his crimes but the extent of those crimes remain in doubt. Will the new regime installed by the US be so much better than that of Hussein, that it will justify the deaths of the tens of thousands of IRaqi civilains and American troops? That is the question to be answered. Keep ip in mind that after ten+ years of sanctions, once hte US lifts those, life will improve dramatically and the US will pat itself on the back for dramatically improving the quality of life for the people of IRaq, failing to take notice of the fact that it was they that were responsible for reducing a once prospersous nation to such an appaling state.

We can only hope that the military action ends quickly and that the Iraqi troops do little to resist. The possibility of Hussein going into exile is quite small. Obviously, for him to take such an action as exiting Iraq and resigning his post, he must ensure that the US is not bluffing. Therefore, it is still possible as he rescinded his stances towards renewed inspections and the Al-Samoud missiles in the eleventh hour as well.

Once the situation is resolved, there will be some interesting developments and many questions to be answered.

Will the US follow through in rebuilding Iraq or will they turn that over to the UN or Europe? Their record in Afghanistan does not speak well of them.

Will they award rebuilding and major oil contracts to US companies, particlularly the ones that donated large sums of money to the Republican campaign? Can we expect to see Haliburton once again at the forefront of awarded contracts?

Will they honor the existing contracts with France, Germany and Russia. The US claimed that the only reason these nations were resisiting the new resolution was because they were afraid of losing their contracts. Why then did the US not suggest that the contracts be unchanged, thus eliminating the reservations of these nations and exonerating themselves by precluding themselves from potential profits?

What shape will the new government take? Will it truly be democratic or will it mirror the US intervention in IRan in which they installed the murderous shaw rather than deal with a socialist regime that threatened US corporate opportunity? Why is it that the US is holding meetings with those that will be the new leaders, instead of giving that choice to the people of Iraq?

Will, the victims of Saddam's brutality, the Kurds be given an independent state or will Turkey's influence deny them that and allow the oppresion of the Kurds by IRaq, Iran, Syria and Turkey to continue?

Will they allow the profits of the oil industry to go to the people of Iraq or will they claim that a socialist measure such as a natinally owned oil company goes against the interests of a free economy and instead divert the profits to MNC's while creating an illusion of greater freedoms and efficiencies?

Will they find the WMD that they were never able to find through UN inspections and US satellite imagery and advanced espionage equipment? When they do find it, will there be disputes as to whether or not it was planted there?

Will the US take credit for restoring prosperity to Iraq, knowing full well that lifting of the sanctions is the real reason?

Will the UN make the difficult decision of condemning the US and taking out punitive actions against them, despite the fact that without the US, the UN has far less power. Yet, at the same time, if it is unable to stand up to a rogue nation, such as the US, it does become irrelevant. The US argues that the UN has become irrelevant because it would not authorize the use of force against Iraq, but I argue that the UN is becoming irrelevant because it is not standing up to and opposing the US with sufficient leverage to prevent US aggression against Iraq.

Will US ambitions stop at Iraq or will this appeasement only serve to entrench their position in the Middle East so that they can launch similar invasions on Iran, Syria, Jordan, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc.?

I am pleased with the stance that our government has taken and fully realize that as our historical ally, and biggest trading partner by far, it is difficult for Canada to come out and condemn the US for these acts, particularly given the punitive actions that the US has taken against every nation that dared to disagree with it.

At this point, the citizens of the world can do very little. The nations of the world do not have the collective might to oppose the US. They have grown too powerful and there is no one to oppose them. The Soviet Union is no longer there to make the US reconsider their actions. Cuba would not exist in its present form, if not for Soviet protection.

It is up to the citizens of the United States of America to oust George Bush or at least get him to change his foreign policy out of fear of being impeached.

However, with the passing of the Patriot Act and with the government sponsored media in the US, it is very difficult for Americans to truly understand the injustice that America is perpetrating on the world. All they see is the stocks rising, mutual funds paying off and reports of liberation in the Middle East from sources such as Fox News. They are imbued with patriotism from such a young age, they believe America to be a philanthropic entity that can do no wrong. Always, for them, there is a way to rationalize American intervention, regardless of the number of casulaties.

That is why as Canadians, we must make them aware of their responsibility and failing that the citizens of the world must make life sufficiently adverse enough for them through ostracism and legal harassment when they travel abroad that the gains that they get through their investments are not enough to offset the lack of freedom that they have around the world.

For too long, the citizens of the world have turned a blind eye to American aggression as we take in the mighty greenback, smiling to their faces while condemning them while their backs are turned. I say it is time that we stop and say that our integrity is not for sale. Let America know what you think of them at every turn such that conistent world opinion forces them to reconsider their values, their sources of media and their politics.

There is little else we can do but chance the minds of the American people.

Do not misunderstand me, there are many great Americans. Perhaps they are the greatest of all for they have the most to gain from American aggresion yet they still oppose it. Uet, there are not so many that they have elected a responsible leader. This needs to change.

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Moving Forward

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-03-18 13:34:32


"Will the UN make the difficult decision of condemning the US and taking out punitive actions against "

I think this will determine if the UN is still worth something, if the UN comdemns the Iraqi invasion (since its illegal in the current context) i think the UN will save face, otherwise...

Even though the gesture would be entirely symbolic (no one in their right mind would actually enforce this), it would send a strong message
that the UN is still relevant...

We will see in the next few days... if Article 377 is invoked.

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Moving Forward

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-03-18 16:05:43


I think the argument was made last night by Bush that there are outstanding resolutions that give the US the right to apply force in this instance.

I wonder why the UN did not make the difficult decision and punish NATO, INCLUDING CANADA, for bombing Serbia.

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Moving Forward

Participant: Fleabag

Date: 2003-03-18 21:08:59


If the UN sanctions force to solve all outstanding resolutions the world would be in flames. The US only refers to the resolutions it wants the world to see, not the ones against them or their allies.

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Moving Forward

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-03-19 07:43:21


Are there gross basic humans rights violations currently in Iraq?? Its a brutal regime... I'm not saying the contrary, but currently, basic rights are not violated (freedom is not present either though). The UN should have acted in the '80's when Saddam used chemical weapons, and they did not. In that case, i would have gladly accepted your point of view. There's a big problem in the UN, i never denied this.

Serbia, on the other hand was using Genocide at the time... Legally speaking i do not know, did the UN Security Council actually veto the use of Force? Or was it only an absence of a majority? Was it brought to the UN General Assembly? I really need more information on this? Can you give me more information?

The word 'punish' is a bit strong don't you think? I never wrote that (If i did i was wrong), i meant condemn, which is only symbolic (much like everything else at the UN), and if Serbia was bombed illegaly, then i might think you are right that we should also be condemned, but I don't know the facts here... What happened with the vote? Was article 377 used?

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Moving Forward

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-03-20 13:25:53


You are right, the Kosovo attack was not sanctioned by the UN, but it DID fall in the Humanitarian Intervention , as described in the International Commission on Intervention and State Sovereignty document i already talked to you about... So its a non-issue, but since the Intervention Statute has not been approved by the UN in their charter, legally speaking we did not respect international law, and the Security Council should have been convened and a resolution condemning our acts should have been put forward (even though it would have been vetoed by the US, France and the UK)...

So my point of view is consistent across all cases. The rule of law must be prevail.

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Moving Forward

Participant: solardog

Date: 2003-03-19 02:34:33


well said. many things to consider now that the US is now actively'removing' Saddam.
on top of the 90billion Bush is allocating to this war in itself, how many tax dollars are we gonna see go overseas to 'rebuild the gulf'? Aren't the Americans already in debt over half a trillion dollars?(projected to rise to 1.8 trillion by 2010)where do these guys get there credit???thats what Id like to know
yes, it'll be very interesting to see if the UN will charge the US with anything, now that they're acting outside international law. (though I doubt any 'ONE' would or could enforce it, either, I also doubt that the world will sit idly while this injustice occurs)
the UN inspectors wer not permitted to do their job, and thats too bad, for everyone.
I say we call collections in after the US government and suspend their 'credit cards' for a minimum 90 days, preferably 900 days.
As they pile more Debt onto their own people so that they can 'liberate' the Iraqis to the same brand of 'freedom' while maiming the land on both sides of the globe, I again wonder who the Bush administration expects is going to pay for all of this destruction and the rebuilding on top of that. you guessed it,THE US TAXPAYERS! or more precisely, the taxpayers' children's children for quite a while. not something for these citizens to be too proud of, or pleased with.
we should really view the bush administration as criminals, and any other regime in possession of weapons of mass destruction. war has never solved anything.

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Moving Forward

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-03-20 01:14:01


Oh, I suppose they will drain the Iraq oil fields to pay for the damage they do. Saw a picture in the National Post today.Baghdad looks like a very beautiful city. The USA government has not been supporting the UN for years, They do not pay their share of dues; yet the UN spend a sizeable portion of their money in the USA. The USA is unwilling to join the land mines ban or to join the International Criminal court or to sign the Kyota Accord. Why this pressing need to "free the Iraqi people". The terrorists of the World Trade Center were not from Iraq. If the USA wants to stop terrorism they would do well to start with reigning in Israel and its refusal to respect UN resolution re; invading Palestinian territory and occupying Palestinian territory.
The UN needs to be rebuilt with many changes. I do not believe that any of 5 countries should have a veto. Perhaps in the present form it should be at least 2 vetos. Which was present this time. I also do not believe that there should be 5 permanent members. The world and governments are constantly changing and The UN should be changeable to reflect this reality.
I think Canada should have a bigger role within the UN. We may be small in population but we are large in size and resources that need to be recognized and protected.

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Moving Forward

Participant: jimlyn

Date: 2003-04-25 08:55:40


The UN should first of all be relocated to a more nuetral terratory.Or it should move around the globe,situating itself in different Embassies,allowing all countries to feel as though they actually are a part of the whole.But make no mistake...we need the UN as a cohesive legal apparatus.

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