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Security

Thank you for participating in the Dialogue on Foreign Policy. The interactive web site is now closed. The Minister's report will appear on this web site once it is released.

This Forum is bilingual, and participants post messages in their language of choice.

Future of our Security

Contributor: Vox

Date: 2003-03-06 00:21:01


I think what you are arguing for are:

- Canada to put a focus on greater/better intelligence gathering and usage

- Canad to re-energize its defence capability

I have read other material that you recently posted and I believe you favour greater Canadian independence.

I would agree with these recommendations to a certain degree and it is also on a matter of degree that I find your ideas problematic. What I question are how Canada can realistically achieve the degree of independence that you seem to promote as well as how wise it is to try. To illustrate a major point - that our present government lacks the will to make any meaningful improvements to Canadian defense capability, you only have to look to HMCS Iroquios. We can't even find a replacement helicopter for it. Our "fleet" of such aircraft is less than 30, none of which was deemed suitable or available. The government has been ducking the issue of replacements for the 40-year-old museum pieces ever since they came into office.

You may also recall the PR flak over CSIS and Bill C36, I wonder how you feel about the prospects of increasing Canadian intelligence efforts. Do you really think the Canadian public would support such an idea? In the past, I have personally written letters to our Minister of Defence, without apparent success, to complain about the lack of simple everyday resources for our men and women in the armed forces.

Finally, I think you need to be more realistic about Canada's resources with regard to technology, budget, manpower or collective will. We are a small nation where our taxes go towards paying salaries of the bureaucracy and other mundane everyday social services. We are not a global defence player when assessed as a whole. While you may wish to look down the road past 2 decades I suggest that there are already more critical problems than we can handle at the moment. Would you prefer to promote the rise of a Franco-German-Russian alliance? Would you rather work with them than the Americans or the British?

BTW, I would like to point out apparent errors in some of your information. For one, I would say that towards the end of WWII, all the major combatants were developing atomic weapons, rockets, jets and possibly also nerve gas; and not just the US. I would also say that overall, Germany had markedly superior technology and Japan also had an marked edge at the beginning of the war. Aside from the benefit of having broken the German code (aided by the capture the "improved" enigma machine from U-505) what really made the difference was the speed and vastness of US war effort and the safety of their N. American supply base from Axis retaliation. Attrition had a great deal to do with the Allies' eventual victory. Germany and Japan simply could not replace what they lost. America had an overwhelming amount of resources to inject as well as pass on to GB and the USSR. It is also ultimately this question of resources and will power that Canada lacks to satisfy the degree of effort that you seem to recommend.


Vox Canadiana

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Future of our Security

Contributor: Fleabag

Date: 2003-03-07 23:04:33


Actually Great Britain 'broke the Enigma code' from U-505 (American movies love to re-write histroy for the masses) and I agree, the US industrial effort was one of the main reasons for allied victory in WWII. The US did benefit greatly from the fact that none of their factories or workers were subject to enemy bombing, and so became the economic powerhouse of the world, able through the Lend/Lease act to profit immensely on WWII. Canada has no particular need to produce large military armaments companies, for to whom would we sell them? Iraq? Morocco? Very few countries, except those of dubious intentions, would actually buy them. That is why the Canadian Military is suffering so. "Use it or lose it" is the watchword for government spending, and since Canada does not seek to enforce it's economic aims through brute force, our military is used sparingly, for 'peace-keeping', and the like. Canada Does not subjugate other 'republics' like Russia. We do not 'prop up' dictators of third world nations to ensure the continued wealth of our multinational companies like the US. We do not have a hostile neighbor to 'race arms buildups' with like the Koreas. Canada prides itself on being fair and equitable. Perhaps too much so for the liking of our neighbors to the south.

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Future of our Security

Contributor: Vox

Date: 2003-03-08 16:41:15


I share your skepticism of Hollywood but on this occasion you are mistaken about U-505. Several enigma machines were actually seized from the Germans. U-505 was captured by the USS Guadalcanal Task Group 22.3 on June 4, 1944. You probably confused U-505 with U-559. The Poles actually did everyone a big favour in 1929 when they intercepted the first German enigma machine (a commercial version) and realized its significance. They worked to break the enigma till the start of WWII. As Poland was overrun the Poles managed to deliver their work to the Allies and the rest of the effort followed from there.

As for Canada's defence requirements, our country has a large "footprint" and we have to secure it to enforce our claim and to deter illegal entry. You will recall we had to "fight" with Iceland and Portugal over fishing rights a few years back and without a credible navy we would neither have had effective monitoring or deterrence. It's pointless to be "right" if you cannot protect those rights. You may wish everyone to be "fair" but it doesn't work that way.

My second point is probably more ominous and there is already a precedent set with the Groupe Roubaix/GIA attempt on the eve of 2000. Due to our large and porous common border with the US, Canada is in effect an ideal entry point for illegals and contraband to the US. At the same time, we have to worry about illegal entry into Canada. Some of the illegals are heavily armed and may possess high-powered aircraft or boats/ships. We do not expect our police to risk their lives without being properly armed so the same goes for our armed forces. The other issue is that once a nation gives up certain combat expertise, they are lost forever because there is no one to train replacements and no experience to impart. If negative world developments should force Canada to call upon those expertise again we would have to ask the US and the UK for training and help. As you may well agree, global security issues seem highly fluid these days.



Vox Canadiana

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Future of our Security

Contributor: Fleabag

Date: 2003-03-09 00:54:47


I must concur that 'being in the right' does not make things right. I also must agree that 'policing one's own backyard' and having the tools to do so are imperatives.
I feel that the current debate should be about 'what is right', rather than 'who is going to make right'.
The US is,(and I hope not by choice, but I can't rule that out) fomenting a confrontation with Islam and pretty much anything that isn't 'the American Way'. Almost every Islamic nation does not believe in democracy because 'free choice' violates the notion of Koranic certainty (I thought 'papal infallability was zealotry!). Based on the recent stand taken by the US regarding the use of force against perceived threats to themselves, eventually nations that are Islamic, adhering to Koranic laws, and even Zionist nations, must eventually have 'regime changes' until they abandon their 'old ways'. These nations wil ahve to be told that religious conviction has no place at the table because America says different. Muhammed will certainly have something to say about that.
A debate or consultation should take place, at the UN, involving every major nation, religion, and race, to decide the direction mankind should go towards. Let's see how much truth we can find in our actions and beliefs.

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Future of our Security

Contributor: Vox

Date: 2003-03-10 11:39:50


I would like to make a correction to my earlier posting.

The fisheries dispute I mentioned should read ...with Spain and Portugal..." and not "...Iceland and Portugal...".



Vox Canadiana

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