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The Role of Memory

Contributor: Vox

Date: 2003-02-24 21:37:44

I think remembering is simply in our nature. Is it subversive? I guess it depends on what it's subverting us from and what it's subverting us into. I mean if we were "nasty" to begin with and we build up "nice" memories to cancel out our "nastiness", would that still be subversive?

I would guess that memory is neither "good" nor "bad". (Actually good and bad are themselves subjective concepts but I think that's too OT here).

I think what may help us use memory effectively is, as I had mentioned earlier, if we are able to step outside of our emotions (and our physical selves) when we examine what is presented to us. Memory would then just be information. "Where" we actually are when we "step" outside of our emotions is an interesting place. Is that place then enlightened?

Vox Canadiana

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The Role of Memory

Contributor: banquosghost

Date: 2003-02-24 23:19:33

I ask about the subversiveness of memory in the context of criticising the US. I have been called anti-American for publicly recalling certain historically indisputable facts, in other words by remembering those facts. I'm probably not alone in that. So I find myself wondering if the act of remembering is going to be addded to the list.

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The Role of Memory

Contributor: Vox

Date: 2003-02-25 14:39:42

Remembering "facts" is not subversive by itself but overly dwelling on those memories while not realizing that they are selective and incomplete as well as prone to error is probably naive...but also not necessarily subversive.

What ought to be considered subversive is if we indulge in our emotions and passions in spite of realizing our flawed perceptions and forge ahead all the same with the intentions of misrepresenting information for our own twisted purposes.

Vox Canadiana

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The Role of Memory

Contributor: kn_aeshap

Date: 2003-02-24 23:23:26

"I think what may help us use memory effectively is, as I had mentioned earlier, if we are able to step outside of our emotions (and our physical selves) when we examine what is presented to us."

Agreed- having the ability to be completely objective (removing ourselves from our emotions) would be of great value in a situation where emotion may reign.

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The Role of Memory

Contributor: Barretm82

Date: 2003-02-24 23:39:54

Hi Vox,

Hmm�. step outside our emotions? Enjoyable thought, not practical. We need those emotions to ground us, to provide empathy with others. Here is food for thought, look at the description for people who are outside there emotions, the term non-empathic sociopath behavior. (Definition; egocentric individuals with no empathy for others, and are incapable of feeling remorse or guilt).

That definition can hardly be deemed enlightenment. (Side note; I do understand the gist of your statement, I am just complicating it). ;)

I think your point was to put aside our problem causing emotions when dealing with a crisis. However the emotion of empathy is a part of that process, the ability to put yourself on someone else�s shoes, but I digress�..

Here is a second thought; can accurate information stored on the internet be considered memory? We can access it and sort the information fairly quick, use the information to reference and at times sharpen our perceived realities.

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The Role of Memory

Contributor: Vox

Date: 2003-02-25 21:02:01

"Barretm82", to "step outside our emotions" does not mean that we become inhumane. I mentioned elsewhere (in particular see "The 3 Pillars" under "Beyond policies and ideals") that one is often challenged to simultaneously manage conflicting impressions but that we still need to function effectively in spite of this uncertainty.

We all know that when we let our emotions rule all of our actions we are no better than a 'basket case'. Emotions are very powerful and if you have any formal training in psychology or behavioural studies you will recall that emotions are one of our fastest reacting senses (physical reflex actions are even faster). 'Thinking' is much slow.

Therefore when we wish the best for someone who may be suffering (could even be ourselves) we sometimes need to allow our slower senses to catch up. When we 'step outside our emotions" then we give a chance for our minds to work. If we are humane, we then have a better chance of extending better assistance to the sufferer (or ourselves).

BTW, when viewed broadly, 'enlightenment' is merely deep understanding of the nature of things. It has no inherent meaning, purpose or intent. Some people use it in responsible ways while others use it to successfully exploit people. 'Enlightenment' is merely a 'higher' tool. However, when we choose to ignore it, we ignore it at our own peril.

Vox Canadiana

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The Role of Memory

Contributor: Barretm82

Date: 2003-02-25 22:26:10

I have to post a brief reply as I am preparing right now to leave tomorrow morning.
I understand your points, at this point I look forward to when I return, as I don't have enough time to dive into the subject.

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The Role of Memory

Contributor: Barretm82

Date: 2003-02-24 23:50:45

..."Memory would then just be information."...

Just to add, think of the internet as extended collective memory for people? Society?

(Yes, my philosophical computer engineering side is showing)

lol...
Steve

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The Role of Memory

Contributor: banquosghost

Date: 2003-02-25 09:59:01

As I've mentioned elsewhere I work in market research. A few months back I came across a verbal response to a question pertaining to sustainable energy development that I thought encapsulated quite perfectly our current cultural relationship to "information". Someone made the following observation (and this is a verbatim quote): "I am fairly well informed on the issue so I have not given it much thought."

Too often these days we confuse the posession of information with the activity of thinking.

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The Role of Memory

Contributor: Barretm82

Date: 2003-02-25 10:43:17

Well said...

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