DFAIT logo partnership The logo for the by design elab, an independent research development and production think tank specializing in online forums for policy development, incubated in 1997 at the McLuhan Program at the University of Toronto
DFAIT Home Site Map Help Policies Partners Feedback Netcast Français
 
Welcome
Message from the Minister
Dialogue Paper
Answer Questions
View Answers
Discussion Forum
 

Security

Thank you for participating in the Dialogue on Foreign Policy. The interactive web site is now closed. The Minister's report will appear on this web site once it is released.

This Forum is bilingual, and participants post messages in their language of choice.

The Role of Memory

Contributor: Fleabag

Date: 2003-02-23 18:33:58


What are the parameters for declaring war of this sort?
There are many countries that have defied UN resolutions, secretly developed WMDs, etc(The US and Israel, Zimbabwe, etc). The defiance of a UN resolution therefore cannot be it. Aggression(China annexing Tibet, the US invasion of Panama)? Nope, lots of countries are guilty. 9?11 Terrorist attacks? Partly. The US went after Osama and the Taliban, but failed to produce results that will be of any long term significance. Now Iraq? The 9/11 terrorists were mostly Saudi. Why does the US forgive Saudi Arabia for sending death by terror to the US? The Saudi regime that runs OPEC is US-friendly. Iraq is not. Plus, they only accept the Euro. Those two facts outweigh any other arguments that Iraq is any worse than anyone else.
China's record on human rights abuses, crushing democracy, invasion and annexation of other nations, and it's willingness to supply countries with arms to spread communism by the sword far exceed anything that Iraq, Israel, even the US has done so far. Why does the US not stand up to China? They have an economic interest to keep communism in China working because of huge profits on Nike shoes, etc. The US only acts in it's own self interest and history, if you can find it untainted, proves it. Why should we believe the US now, when they have proven they will lie for their own self interest?
Saddam should be brought to the UN for a war crimes trial, and the UN should administer the governance of the Iraqi nation. NOT the US whose mantra consists of 'self-interest rules'.

Reply to this message

Show in topic

The Role of Memory

Contributor: Waterloo

Date: 2003-02-24 01:51:22


You leave out quite a few important points, and are incorrect in others. You are oversimplifying the situation.

First of all, the US secretly developed WMD? I don't think that was a very well kept secret, seeing as they dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan. As for chemical and biological weapons, I have never heard of the US denying having them either. In fact, they made quite the idiotic habit of selling them to people like Saddam Hussein. And you're right, it's not just the defiance of a UN resolution that necessitates force, otherwise both the Israelis and Palestinians (among others) would be long gone. But none of the nations you mentioned are a threat to world security, Iraq is. None of the nations you mentioned have proven willing to use WMD, Iraq has. It is the type of resolutions that count; ones that deal with global security. Resolutions have varying degrees of importance and therefore varying degrees of enforcement.

Force should always be a last option. If a nation refuses to comply, but is of little threat to others outside their country, then there are better ways to deal with them, eg sanctions. It's a shame about the human rights violations, but if the US intervened in every country where this happens, then think of the consequences and protests. As for China spreading communism still, this sounds a bit like a revival of McCarthyism. Great. China is terrible on human rights, but not the worst, and they leave most other countries alone nowadays. They are making improvements.

As for the Saudis, you fail to distinguish between people and government. It wasn't the Saudi government that attacked the US, it was Saudi nationals. Surely you see the problem in fighting the Saudis because of this? At any rate, (to the oil theory fans) if the US was after oil, why not invade SA? They have more oil than Iraq and the US already has troops there.

And we shouldn't believe the US. We should believe what the UN says. The UN says SAddam isn't disarming, and that he isn't co-operating to an acceptible degree. Seems pretty obvious to me.

The bottom line is that no other "administration" in the world has so frequently and consistently defied the UN, while simultaneously posing a threat to world security as Saddam's. I do agree, however, that he should be brought before the UN, and that the UN should govern Iraq after the war. Contrary to some people's beliefs, the case of Afghanistan is a success, and a similar style of 'occupation' should be instituted.

Reply to this message