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Participant: Barretm82
Date: 2003-03-27 13:54:14
Link;
----A new low is achieved for the United Nations---- “To deny food & aid for political reasons”.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1048778520870_452///?hub=TopStories
Snippet;
UN Secretary General Kofi Annan has called for rapid resumption of the UN aid program. However, a resolution giving him authority to run the program for 45 days has been stalled because Russia, Syria and others...
At an open meeting at the UN on Thursday, Canada's ambassador, Paul Heinbecker, called for the oil-for-food program to be reinstated and appealed to members of the Security Council to work together to bring humanitarian aid to Iraq.
"There is no more noble and humane purpose this council can now serve than helping the people of Iraq," he said.
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Participant: Barretm82
Date: 2003-04-02 09:51:16
Just an update to any new readers, this has been resolved. The oil for food program is reinstated.
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Participant: 1173
Date: 2003-04-02 09:58:45
This is a problem created by the US/UK and the coalition of the willing nations.
The only legitimate government of the independent state of Iraq is the Saddam government. The US/UK and friends are in Iraq in defiance of the UN that did not want a war at this time; therefore, the invading countries do not have any authority to sell Iraq's oil and receive funds to be used for providing food for the Iraqi people.
It is not politics, but International Law and the accepted role of relations between the UN and member states that would prevent facilitating the sale of oil for food program during the war with Iraq, and possibly until a government for Iraq is in place.
The provision of humanitarian aid by the UN and other countries could be continued, but it should do so outside the authority of the US/UK and coalition nations.
Calvin
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Participant: Barretm82
Date: 2003-04-02 11:56:42
..."The only legitimate government of the independent state of Iraq is the Saddam government. The US/UK and friends are in Iraq in defiance of the UN that did not want a war at this time;"...
There was no resolution passed in the U.N. stating this, you are in error.
..."It is not politics"...
The U.N. is only about politics to suggest otherwise is naivety.
..."The provision of humanitarian aid by the UN and other countries could be continued, but it should do so outside the authority of the US/UK and coalition nations."...
As long as the food and water get there, does it really bother you as to method?
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Participant: codc01
Date: 2003-04-02 12:41:47
"There was no resolution passed in the U.N. stating this, you are in error. "
Cheap trick! :) They are not in defiance of the UN, because nobody condemned them, but they are still attacking Iraq illegaly...
The goal of the UN is not politics, even though i agree with you that currently in 'real-life' i'd rather say its a meeting of powerful nations which care mainly about their own interets...
But, we need the UN, otherwise we have nothing...
"As long as the food and water get there, does it really bother you as to method? "
It DOES matter WHO delivers the humanitarian aid, not for us Canadians, but it does matter for the people of the middle-east...
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Participant: Barretm82
Date: 2003-04-02 16:13:55
codc01, Cheap trick! :) They are not in defiance of the UN, because nobody condemned them, but they are still attacking Iraq illegaly...
(Good come back) :)
"Cheap trick, we are talking about the U.N. here. It is all cheap tricks". :)
codc01, you do realize that most countries of the U.N. don't even have a fair legal system! Some of these countries wouldn't know what a Charter of Rights and Freedoms is! (Even if it hit them in the behind).
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Participant: Barretm82
Date: 2003-04-02 16:56:37
It DOES matter WHO delivers the humanitarian aid, not for us Canadians, but it does matter for the people of the middle-east...
If you & your family are staving to death, it doesn't matter WHO gets the food to you. Perhaps there are some well fed (chubby) Middle-east people who care but they are not the one who are hungry.
If someone is telling you it matters who delivers the aid, I wouldn’t take them too seriously as that individual(s) is probably well fed and sitting at a computer terminal. ;)
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Participant: codc01
Date: 2003-04-03 02:33:58
"If you & your family are staving to death, it doesn't matter WHO gets the food to you. Perhaps there are some well fed (chubby) Middle-east people who care but they are not the one who are hungry. "
I think you've got it partially wrong, some people are willing to starve to death instead of accepting help from those they consider as the 'evil' of the world... Only the future will tell us what will happen.
I have met a lot of different people of different ethnic background in my life, and I've seen how people think differently... But I'm not saying I'm right, because i actually don't know...
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Participant: cfallon
Date: 2003-04-03 14:03:06
Interesting, I've met alot of people from all sorts of backgrounds too, and the thing I can't get over is how SIMILARLY people think.
Sometimes, I think that humans of all backgrounds share the same base values and that religion and culture only serve to muck those values up a little and create semantic differences that cause all sorts of horrors and clashes.
The UN would work if there was such a thing called human rights. That these human rights were irrespective of culture, race and religion.
I don't know...
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Participant: fatmomma
Date: 2003-04-05 14:07:26
Yes cfallon as stated before; we do share many similsr belief but still come up on opposing sides. Perhaps that is because the real truth and real solution lies somewhere between. I really can't believe that this war is going to be a magic bullet and bring any semblance of peace to the Middle East. Until we can get all countries to work together on the main issue instead of all promoting their own economic and political ideals; maybe there is no answer. The UN is the best hope we have but will need many changes. Just like a new democracy it needs time, understanding , compromise, and representatives who are more global minded and free from political pressures and agendas.
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Participant: fatmomma
Date: 2003-04-03 02:03:38
I believe the UN stated that the Coalition is resposible for ensuring that humanitarian aid is delivered.
Iraq has billions of dollars in their UN account to pay for food at this time.
I believe Cretien has pledged 100 million for Iraq humanitarian aid.
It will be better if the UN or organizations not involved in this war were to deliver any food so it doesn't become a propagada tool.
I would not trust food delivered to me by an invading force.
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Participant: fatmomma
Date: 2003-04-05 13:51:03
Well my understanding is most of the Kurds are situated near Turkey and are fighting with the coalition; The main body of Kurds are probably not facing the starvation faced by the other Iraqis in Baghdad and other surrounded cities. They are not the majority of people being starved. I do suspect that the Americans would like to bestow the aid more for "photo opportunity" and propaganda. By Americans I am specifically referring to the administration; Americans with true humanitarian outlook do not care who feeds the starving people; only that they are fed.
Ok Barrett satisfied. I was tardy because I haven't been able to research this issue to give an informed answer; so I will let you have my own humble understanding. If you can enlighten me; I would be interested. Either way; Americans can offer food to anyone they want; I just don't want them to have exclusive rights.
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Participant: cfallon
Date: 2003-04-08 13:25:51
The Kurds are in better shape because they have wrested control of their lands from Saddam, thanks to patrols of the no-fly zones.
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Participant: fatmomma
Date: 2003-04-08 22:58:56
Yes, Iraq's Kurds are better off now. What about Turkey's Kurds. They are being slaughtered by Turkey a sometimes ally of the USA. Turkey is only getting promises of 7 Billion from the USA now since Turkey has rescinded the use of their land for the invasion forces. There are many more Kurds in Turkey and Iran than Iraq. That is a problem that should have been addressed long ago. It is not fundamentally an Iraq problem.
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Participant: cfallon
Date: 2003-04-10 10:16:02
I think we see that Turkey is more closely allied to France and Germany now.
What would France and Germany propose to help Kurds? I know: nothing!
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Participant: codc01
Date: 2003-04-10 14:02:19
Your facts are simply wrong.
Turkey is actually aligned with nobody (and I'm very happy with that) - did you know that the UE is constantly threatening Turkey saying they will never get in unless they do that and this... While they did not accept US's bribes either. They stand up for their own interests, and that is quite honorable.
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Participant: cfallon
Date: 2003-04-11 08:56:59
But there is dis-honor because the US stands up for their own interests?
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Participant: codc01
Date: 2003-04-11 14:21:32
No. If the US defends their interests within the legal international framework, i don't have any problem with that.
I'd really like that if all countries took more care about worlwide interest instead of their own, but i think this should be done by all countries all at once ... (IS it possible currently? No).
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Participant: fatmomma
Date: 2003-04-13 00:18:36
I was relieved when Turkey turned down the American bribe. That was a lot of money they refused. However, Turkey is not that honourable in its treatment of its Kurdish people. Turkey has been accused of genocide of the Kurds.
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Participant: fatmomma
Date: 2003-04-13 00:39:13
check out this website: http://www.orgurluk.org/hrights/humtorrap.
It describes many of the terrible human rights abuses and genocide of the Kurds in Turkey. Germany is mentioned as ignoring this abuses for its interests in trade with Turkey. The date is 1996 but if these abuses still exist as described under rape and torture ( or similar subtitle) I would have to support a regime change here and wonder why the UN hasn't done anything to control Turkey Administration that allows such atrocities.
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Participant: codc01
Date: 2003-04-13 14:32:53
Well, Turkey has changed, they have no choice, they want to enter the European Union, and the conditions for entry are very strict, and most of those conditions have been respected. And I agree, just watch the known movie Lawrence of Arabia (which is an historical film after all), and you'll see that the Turks were not the kindest people in the world at all.
The problem i have is that the EU seems always to be adding new conditions to Turkey...
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